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CHNetwork Online Community Forums Christ and the Holy Trinity Did Jesus Claim to be Omniscient, Omnipresent, and Omnipotent?

13 replies, 6 voices Last updated by Profile photo of NotMyOwn notmyown 2 months, 2 weeks ago
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  • #914
    Profile photo of Credo Catholic
    Credo Catholic
    Participant
    @Credo Catholic

    A friend's husband is taking an online course on Christianity for credit.  One of the questions was: Did Jesus claim to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent?  I said off the top of my head no, I didn't remember Jesus claiming to know everything, be present everywhere, and have all power.  Although I think it was all true, he didn't claim it.  What do the scripture readers here say?  

    #919
    Profile photo of Proverb16:7
    Proverb167
    Participant
    @Proverb167

    Marsha,

    There may be two answers to that question.. One that is true for the authors of the on-line course and yet another for what scriptures say, and what the church teaches on this.

    Not knowing who the course is through, one might keep this in the back of the file folder for reference at a later date.

    I would suspect that scripture experts may have come to that conclusion through deduction and other methods, I do not recall reading those terms explicitly in any texts.  Though I do not read Greek or Aramaic or other ancient languages..

    #918
    Profile photo of Stacia
    Stacia
    Participant
    @Stacia

    When Jesus said 'Before Abraham came to be I Am.' He was claiming to be YHWH the eternal one, and the Jews understood that to be what He was saying because they accused Him of blasphemey – So, in a round about way, He did claim to be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, but He did not use those words.
    Stacia

    #917
    Profile photo of Dave Armstrong
    dave armstrong
    Participant
    @Dave Armstrong

    Jesus had a Divine Nature and a Human Nature. In His Divine Nature He was all those things. He said a few statements that suggest at least some of this, and other things are written about Him along these lines, in the NT. Here are some passages that I have compiled myself (many years ago when I was a Protestant):

    OMNIPOTENCE

    1) MATTHEW 11:27 (KJV) All things are delivered unto me of my Father: . . . {cf. Jn 16:15, 17:10}

    2) MATTHEW 28:18 . . . All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    3) REVELATION 3:7 . . . These things saith he that is holy, . . ., he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

    OMNISCIENCE

    Jesus often says things that show He has extraordinary knowledge, and that are consistent with His being omniscient, which we know He was in His Divine Nature, being God. The following Scriptures about Jesus strongly suggest it:

    1) JOHN 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

    2) JOHN 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, . . .

    3) JOHN 21:17 . . . Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee . . .

    4) COLOSSIANS 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

    OMNIPRESENCE

    1) MATTHEW 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

    2) MATTHEW 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, {even} unto the end of the world. Amen.

    Plus statements about this:

    1) EPHESIANS 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

    2) COLOSSIANS 3:11 . . . Christ {is} all, and in all.

    For much more along these lines, see my paper: Jesus is God: Biblical Proofs

    #916
    Profile photo of Credo Catholic
    Credo Catholic
    Participant
    @Credo Catholic

    Dave, thank you so much, you are a marvel!  How you find these scripture verses on every subject so quickly is amazing, and a blessing for us here.  I will contact my friend and give her these references for her husband.  God bless

    I am puzzled as to how Jesus could be these divine things and still be human as us.  I know its a mystery. 

    #915
    Profile photo of Dave Armstrong
    dave armstrong
    Participant
    @Dave Armstrong

    Well, you're very kind, but this particular research I did way back in 1982 (one of my first big theological studies), so all I had to do was go to that paper and retrieve it.

    #21364
    Profile photo of NotMyOwn
    notmyown
    Participant
    @notmyown

    Houston, we have a problem

    ““But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.” (Matthew‬ ‭24:36‬ ‭NABRE‬‬)

    #21365
    Profile photo of NotMyOwn
    notmyown
    Participant
    @notmyown

    Sorry for the lack of pleasantries… I just really need to focus on classwork for Lent.  Just wanted to put that out there.  It is clear from that verse that Christ did not possess all knowledge in His own Person in time, in that specific moment at the very least.  And Christ also “And Jesus advanced [in] wisdom and age and favor before God and man.” (Luke‬ ‭2:52‬ ‭NABRE‬‬)  Wisdom is a form of knowledge, and if He in His humanity increased in it, then it is apparent that He did not in His humanity at least— before His Resurrection at least — possess all knowledge.  What about in His Eternal Divinity?

    I am having trouble finding the exact verses… everything that the Father taught me I speak unto you… or something like that.  Here are the ones I found.  I could see either or both of these bits to refer to either in His Eternality or in His Humanity.

    “… But the one who sent me is true, and what I heard from him I tell the world.  So Jesus said (to them), “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I say only what the Father taught me.” (John‬ ‭8:26, 28‬ ‭NABRE‬‬)  “because I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.” (John‬ ‭12:49‬ ‭NABRE‬‬)

    Of course, since God in the Trinity is beyond time, and change is a matter of time, it may be most plausible that the Father’s teaching of the Son is as eternal as the begetting of the Son.

    The Son has two wills, the Human and the Divine.  Is it possible that these two also possess two pools of knowledge?

     

    At the very least, Jesus said, “Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.” (‭‭John‬ ‭16:15‬ ‭NABRE‬‬)

    Perhaps from this can be drawn that Jesus possesses all knowledge only in that the Father possesses all knowledge, and they are One Being.  To elaborate, maybe it is that the Divine Person of the Father possesses all knowledge *for* His Eternally-Beggotten and Consubstantial Son, seeing as they are One Being, though not one Person.

    (At the same time, this text (John 16:15) helps us to get the Filioque… and the Spirit does indeed eternally-proceed from the Person of the Father as well as from the Person of the Son in one spiration…)

     

    So in conclusion… these matters are far too complicated for me, and obviously for everyone that I’ve come across on the internet so far… so maybe we need some sort of Dogmatic Teaching from the Church to help clarify.  Like the matter of Christ’s Divine and Human Wills in His One Person.

     

     

    The reason why I found this page however was because I am trying to find out if the Son is Omnipresent in His own Person and in what way, and if this was the case before the Incarnation, during His earthly life, and/or after the Resurrection.

     

    These matters may directly correlate with how we are able to seek the intercession of Saints and expect them to hear us….  I am seeking to give credal (mathematical and concise) language to how it is that the Saints can hear our requests for intercession and prayers… I think it may be connected with how the Son has reconciled all of the Saints in His own Person through His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity on the Cross, and somehow the Holy Spirit, proceeding from the Son through the One Spiration with which both the Father and the Son spirate the Spirit, brings to sentience all these persons in His Omnipresent Person… if He is Omnipresent… and/or if this is through the Spirit… but what if the Spirit is only Omnipresent in His Procession from the Son who being the Word is Omnipresent and fills all…

    In whom is it said that we live and move and have our being?  Each Person of the Trinity, or just one or two of the Persons—and in them the fullness of Divinity, though not in each individual of the Persons themselves, but just in one or two Persons?  You see?  I don’t know this stuff, but it’s important and I want to know.

     

    And I have already wasted so much time on this, when I have so much to do for classes.  Pray for me.

    #21366
    Profile photo of NotMyOwn
    notmyown
    Participant
    @notmyown

    Hmm… and then that the sentience which is awakened in these persons… I think it has to correlate and connect with their living person (meaning future saints are not prayed to… for an objective reason and not just for the sake of some imperfect human tradition not of the Magisterium, I’m going to assume, because they cannot hear it yet… and God wills that persons seek intercession sequentially and not outside of time… though we can adore *His* Person outside of time, it seems.. (we can adore Baby Jesus (outside of time it seems, I’m going to guess through the Holy Spirit who is outside of time… so like our worship is taken back in time… just like our sins are taken back in time… as Christ in the Mass is re-present forward in time) even though He is a baby no longer in the Flesh in our time period I would assume.. unless a Resurrection Body can appear at whatever age it wishes… which could be the case instead or both could be the case {but can we not venerate the Saints *in their acts*, and not just *because of their acts*?  Maybe it is that this veneration can only go backwards in time and not forwards in time?  Or maybe it is that some level of knowledge is required for veneration?  At the very least it seems that I cannot request from those Foreknown Saints who are not yet born, though I know them not, for their prayers..  What about the 24 Elders in Revelation?  Can we request their intercession?  Are they real individual human beings or are they not?  Are they from John’s look into the future, and were they already there in the First Century, or are there some or most who are not yet born?  (And if that is the case, might we seek their intercession (of those not yet born) since we know of them?)})… (sorry for the long tangent… I hope you can navigate these thoughts) and it seems that in most cases at least a certain level of sanctity (life in Christ?) (in their current temporal being) on the part of persons is required for them to have their consciousness so extended so as to be aware of our requests for prayer, a sort of bilocation.

     

    At least I have typed all of this out for later… at least here it’s documented…

    I apologize for the length, and again, pray for me, since I still have work to do, and have ended up wasting *even more* of my time, which my duty commands be spent in study… so if I have sinned, pray that I may be forgiven and healed, and sin no more in such a way if I have sinned… and pray for consolation for me, and for an increased ability to be faithful in my responsibilities as a student… and that God might keep me on track… Pray for me to get increased clarity in my duties, and in how I should spend my time.  My heart is somewhat heavy because of this.  It breaks my heart to think that I have hurt Jesus because of what I have done.  Pray for me.

    #21368
    Profile photo of David W. Emery
    David W. Emery
    Keymaster
    @David W. Emery

    The verse you cite is no problem at all, notmyown.

    From the Navarre Bible Commentary:

    Matthew 24:36. Every revelation about the end of the world is clothed in mystery; Jesus, being God, knows every detail of the plan of salvation but he refrains from revealing the date of the Last Judgment. Why? To ensure that his Apostles and disciples stay on the alert, and to underline the transcendence of this mysterious design. This phrase carries echoes of Jesus’ reply to the sons of Zebedee: “To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father” (Matthew 20:23) — not because he does not know the details, but because it is not for him to reveal them.

    From the older Haydock Commentary (citing the Douay-Rheims Bible):

    Ver. 36. No man knoweth… but the Father alone. The words in St. Mark (xiii. 32.) are still harder: neither the angels, nor the Son, but the Father. The Arians objected this place, to shew that Christ being ignorant of the day of judgment, could not be truly God. By the same words, no one knoweth, but the Father alone, (as they expound them) the Holy Ghost must be excluded from being the true God. In answer to this difficulty, when it is said, but the Father alone, it is certain that the eternal Son and the Holy Ghost could never be ignorant of the day of judgment: because, as they are one and the same God, so they must have one and the same nature, the same substance, wisdom, knowledge, and all absolute perfections. 2. It is also certain that Jesus Christ knew the day of judgment, and all things to come, by a knowledge which he could not but have, because of the union by which his human nature was united to the divine person and nature. See Colossians ii. 3. And so to attribute any ignorance to Christ, was the error of those heretics called Agnoitai. 3. But though Christ, as a man, knew the day of judgment, yet this knowledge was not due to him as he was man, or because he was man, but he only knew the day of judgment, because he was God as well as man. 4. It is the common answer of the fathers, that Christ here speaks to his disciples, only as he was the ambassador of his Father; and so he is only to know what he is to make known to men. He is said not to know, says St. Augustine [lib. 83. QQ. quæst. 60. tom. 6], what he will not make others know, or what he will not reveal to them. (Witham) — By this Jesus Christ wished to suppress the curiosity of his disciples. In the same manner after his resurrection, he answered the same question: ’Tis not for you to know the times and the moments, which the Father has placed in his own power. [Acts 1:7] This last clause is added, that the apostles might not be discouraged and think their divine Master esteemed them unworthy of knowing these things. Some Greek manuscripts add nor even the Son, as in Mark xiii. 32. The Son is ignorant of it, not according to his divinity, nor even according to his humanity hypostatically united to his divinity, but according to his humanity, considered as separate from his divinity. (Bible de Vence)

    The point of these seemingly inconsistent verses (you also quote several that seem to be on the opposite side of the issue) is that God is not like man, even when he is incarnate as Jesus Christ. Much of this verbal inconsistency has to do with the fact that the Son remains subservient to the Father. As God, he knows everything. As man, he knows some things through his human knowledge as well as through his divinity. But when speaking to the crowds about things divine, such as here, of the end of the world and his own second coming, he is said “not to know” because it is the Father’s will (and thus his) that these things not be revealed. This is a Semitic way of saying what Jesus said in Acts 1:7: “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority.”

    The reason why I found this page however was because I am trying to find out if the Son is Omnipresent in His own Person and in what way, and if this was the case before the Incarnation, during His earthly life, and/or after the Resurrection.

    Yes to all. He is God, after all.

    These matters may directly correlate with how we are able to seek the intercession of Saints and expect them to hear us….  I am seeking to give credal (mathematical and concise) language to how it is that the Saints can hear our requests for intercession and prayers… I think it may be connected with how the Son has reconciled all of the Saints in His own Person through His Body… (etc.)

    Close. The saints are in heaven, and as such are intimately united to God, as you describe. They receive knowledge of things in this earthly life because, as both they and we are members of the same Body, God reveals these things to them. It is one aspect of the grace of glory.

    In whom is it said that we live and move and have our being?

    St. Paul’s famous quote to the Athenians refers simply to “God” as omnipresent. Each of the three Persons is fully God, so it applies to all three of them.

    I have an appointment, so the remainder of your questions will have to wait until I or someone else can get to them. That doesn’t mean you should stop asking. Fertile minds need nourishment from the fountain of truth.

    David

    #21370
    Profile photo of NotMyOwn
    notmyown
    Participant
    @notmyown

    Thank you, David W. Emery! (I began this before I got several new notifications… I haven’t read those posts yet, because to do that, I would have had to cancel out. But I will soon.)

    To get more information, and to push for increased conciseness in language (or if you do not know to hear you say that you do not know):

    When the Son was crucified, it is not said that the Father is crucified, or the Holy Spirit, or even His own Mother (who on account of Her own suffering in Her Immaculate Heart because of His Suffering for the world is hailed as Queen of Martyrs, despite that She never tasted of death but was Assumed, body and soul, into Heaven), but that the Son only was bodily crucified on the Cross, though the Apostle Paul writes, and this is extended to all in Grace, that “I have been crucified with Christ”..  But the Fathers were very clear.  There is distinction between each Person of the Trinity, though they are One Being.

    To use C.S. Lewis’s soundly-orthodox (though imperfect) analogy in articulating the Trinity as a Super-personal/multi-personal Being, as being comparable to a Cube, the whole Cube being the Being of God, and the Sides (here is where it breaks down, due to the number of sides (squares) of a cube) being the Persons of God, each square is a shape, and the whole cube is a shape.  But when referring to one square in particular on a cube, you are not also talking about or describing the other squares as well… let’s use color coding… again, imperfect, but bear with me.  Let’s say that we say that the Son square is Green.  We are only talking about the Son square.  We are not here talking about the Spirit square.  Could the Spirit square also be green?  Quite possibly, but not necessarily… it could be blue or orange instead.  Of course, this is an imperfect analogy, and could break down depending on how it is applied.  It could be applied in an orthodox way or in a heterodox way… I strive to apply it in an orthodox way.

     

    Do we know the answer to the question of the *Personal* Omnipresence (I am not here talking about the Cube, but the Individual Square) of the Son, if this is on His own or through the Spirit, and if this was the case (and in the same way) before His Incarnation, during His earthly life, and after His Resurrection?  If we don’t, or if you don’t, that is fine.  Let’s just be honest here about the extent of our knowledge and seek the truth.

     

    You are correct and right… I know this… in stating that they (the Saints in Heaven) are in closer fellowship with God in Heaven, and that it is He who reveals to them what they need to know and hear… (let us note with all the people seeking Mary and many of the Saints’ intercessions, God must of necessity expand their consciousnesses in some way—I assume through the Spirit, and I figure (though I do not stake my soul on it) that most of the time it is through this same Spirit that they are made to know our requests for prayer and needs (like a wifi or cell phone signal, but a Living and Sentient and Personal Signal.)  I seek to know how this is, and in what ways this can be understood using the historical theological language of the Church… most certainly it can be explained in such a way.  It seems necessary that it be.  And such language, such a definition and ready and reliable articulation, would most certainly be essential in seeing Protestants in mass (pun not intended) coming into full unity with the visible and institutional Body of Catholic Church, and in catechising Catholics in regards to these things for their own sakes, that they are not led astray, and also for the sake of their mission fields… and the people, Protestant and otherwise, that they come in contact with so that they can provide them with a good articulation of and answer for the Church’s teachings… in order to tear down the strongholds and every lofty argument raised against the knowledge of our God’s Will and Activity and Purpose in the Catholic Church which keeps people from coming to a full knowledge of the truth… or at least sufficient knowledge to come home without adopting beliefs which they believe conflict with foundational and fundamental, essential, and biblical Christian Doctrines.

     

    We know what this means.  Most evangelicals don’t—

    “For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.”

    But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.” (‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:18-24‬ ‭ESV‬‬)

    This passage… which I quote here from the ESV… cannot be understood in its literal literary sense by Protestants who hold fast in their traditional and historical Protestantism.

     

    I want to be able to explain the Catholic Teaching on these things to Protestants, giving the how.  While God is certainly beyond our understanding, He has given us all we need to know everything that we need to know about Him.  The Trinity, and so many questions of Christology, can be understood by what we have and know in Scripture… and (praise God) through the language of the Church Councils and other authoritative statements by the Church… I think that this falls among those things…  And if it can be defined, the cause of the Church, and our credibility with the separated brethren will automatically go up, and there will be fewer to question whether or not Christ is even in Catholics since it seems that Catholics can give no argument that what the Church does is anything but idolatry and worship (adoration) of others besides God.

     

    My interest in these things is evangelistic and ecumenical.

     

    It is interesting that these things come back to foundational Christian Doctrines however… back to Credal Language.  That means that there’s hope.  That means that we can make progress in these things and in being able to articulate them and describe them and prove them by foundational Christian Doctrines and biblical teachings… whether directly in the Bible or necessarily (or at least reasonably) consequent of teachings which are clearly in the Bible.  This means that we can, without manipulation or deception, by the Grace of God and in step with what God has already been doing among and inside the separated brethren, see great progress in seeing a great many come into full unity. (In this, I dare to speak of a movement that I believe in hope that God has willed, which will make history, and prepare the Church even more for the Return of our Lord, that we might be presented perfect and without spot or wrinkle or blemish to Him at His Coming.) [See Peter Kreeft on these things… namely on Ecumenism — the end of which is the unity of all truly repentant and truly faithful Christians with the visible Catholic Church, to the Visible Expression and Manifestation of Gospel realities to the world, to the salvation of many, to the Greater Glory of God in His Church.]

     

    So these things… these doctrines and areas of theology… are far more practically important relevant in the mission and life of the Church than mere intellectual curiosity… In a lot of ways… in Christ, these are the Cornerstone for a potentially great and historic Reclamation of separated Christians by the Catholic Church, which is worth hoping for.  “But who hopes for what he sees?  But if you hope for what you do not see, you wait for it with patience,” for will “He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all not also, with Him, graciously give us all things?”  “For by Him, through Him, and to Him are all things,” and “He makes all things to work together for good, for those who love God and are called according to His Purpose.”

     

    [Man, this ended up being lengthy.]

    #21371
    Profile photo of NotMyOwn
    notmyown
    Participant
    @notmyown

    To come back to the question at hand:

    Do we know the answer to the question of the *Personal* Omnipresence (I am not here talking about the Cube (go back to C.S. Lewis’s analogy), but the Individual Square) of the Son, if this is on His own or through the Spirit, and if this was the case (and in the same way) before His Incarnation, during His earthly life, and after His Resurrection? If we don’t, or if you don’t, that is fine. Let’s just be honest here about the extent of our knowledge and seek the truth, to God’s Glory and the good of all His Holy Church, and for the reaching of the nations with this Gospel of Truth with which the Church has been entrusted as a deposit to go to the end of the age.  I want to seek to understand with greater clarity, what is contained in that deposit, since I have need of clarity in those areas in order to best fulfill my obligation to join the Holy Spirit in the Church in making disciples of all nations and teaching them to observe all that Our Lord has commanded of Us.

    Please do not despise my words, or how much I have written here.  I have written this much because there is so much that needs to be covered, and all of this matters so much.

    —–

    But I am sure that you can see how much of my study time that I have spent on these things. /:   I have need of prayer, in knowing that I made the best use of my time, and in getting the best use of the rest of it in study.

    Gracia & pax, brothers (and maybe sisters as well) in Christ.

    #21374
    Profile photo of David W. Emery
    David W. Emery
    Keymaster
    @David W. Emery

    …meaning future saints are not prayed to… for an objective reason and not just for the sake of some imperfect human tradition not of the Magisterium, I’m going to assume, because they cannot hear it yet… and God wills that persons seek intercession sequentially and not outside of time…

    The Church canonizes only those persons who have passed on to their reward. A person still living on earth is not eligible, because the whole idea of canonized sainthood is that the person is now in heaven. Consequently, there is the thorough investigation of the person’s life, the required miracles, and the formal pronunciation. Only then can someone be recognized as a canonized saint.

    It is true that we do not know exactly how eternity works, other than the fact that it is not the same as time and does not function sequentially.

    …but can we not venerate the Saints in their acts, and not just because of their acts?  Maybe it is that this veneration can only go backwards in time and not forwards in time?  Or maybe it is that some level of knowledge is required for veneration?

    It makes sense that we need to have some knowledge of the person we intend to venerate. Otherwise, the veneration would have no meaning.

    Saints can be considered from two standpoints: their past acts while in earthly life, and their present acts in heaven and eternity. The former we know from the history of their life, which is publicized in connection with their canonization. The latter we know through their effects, manifest once they have been investigated and approved by the Church authorities.

    What about the 24 Elders in Revelation?  Can we request their intercession?  Are they real individual human beings or are they not?

    We don’t know exactly who or what they are, in the same way that we are ignorant of the identity Living Creatures that John also saw in heaven. Because of this lack of positive identification, I should think the Church would discourage the faithful from cultivating devotion to them. We should know those whom we petition, don’t you think?

    …I still have work to do, and have ended up wasting even more of my time…

    If you have sufficient time to ask questions and still complete your studies, that is one thing. But if you are robbing necessary time from your studies, leaving them incomplete, that is quite another. The second scenario is imprudent and truly wasteful. God (and I) would much rather you tend to your studies. Once they are caught up, you can investigate these other things.

    Do we know the answer to the question of the Personal Omnipresence… of the Son, if this is on His own or through the Spirit, and if this was the case (and in the same way) before His Incarnation, during His earthly life, and after His Resurrection?

    Every act of God ad extra (outside of their own interior communion) is common to all the Persons — except for the Incarnation, which was accomplished by the Son only, in obedience to the Father. Before his Incarnation (speaking in temporal terms, although God lives in eternity), the Son was only potentially the man Jesus Christ; afterwards, he is actually the man Jesus Christ. This includes his present glorified existence at the right hand of God the Father in heaven. In eternity, there is no past or future, because it is no time and there is no succession or movement as we see in the natural, physical universe.

    I seek to know how this [knowledge of what happens on earth] is, and in what ways this can be understood using the historical theological language of the Church…

    From the Summa Theologica 1.89.3:

    …the separated soul [a saint in heaven before the resurrection of the body], like the angels, understands by means of species [according to their essence only, not including other properties available in earthly life through the senses], received [as previously agreed] from the influence of the Divine light. Nevertheless, as the soul by nature is inferior to an angel, to whom this kind of knowledge is natural, the soul apart from the body through such species does not receive perfect knowledge, but only a general and confused kind of knowledge. Separated souls, therefore, have the same relation through such species to imperfect and confused knowledge of natural things as the angels have to the perfect knowledge thereof. Now angels through such species know all natural things perfectly; because all that God has produced in the respective natures of natural things has been produced by Him in the angelic intelligence, as Augustine says (Gen. ad lit. ii, 8). Hence it follows that separated souls know all natural things not with a certain and proper knowledge, but in a general and confused manner.

    This is according to natural knowledge, not according to the supernatural illumination they receive from God in heaven.

    From the Summa Theologica 1.89.8:

    By natural knowledge… the souls of the dead do not know what passes on earth. This follows from what has been laid down (Article 4), since the separated soul has knowledge of singulars, by being in a way determined to them, either by some vestige of previous knowledge or affection, or by the Divine order. Now the souls departed are in a state of separation from the living, both by Divine order and by their mode of existence, whilst they are joined to the world of incorporeal spiritual substances; and hence they are ignorant of what goes on among us. Whereof Gregory gives the reason thus: “The dead do not know how the living act, for the life of the spirit is far from the life of the flesh; and so, as corporeal things differ from incorporeal in genus, so they are distinct in knowledge” (Moral. xii). Augustine seems to say the same (De Cura pro Mort. xiii), when he asserts that, “the souls of the dead have no concern in the affairs of the living.

    Gregory and Augustine, however, seem to be divided in opinion as regards the souls of the blessed in heaven, for Gregory continues the passage above quoted: “The case of the holy souls is different, for since they see the light of Almighty God, we cannot believe that external things are unknown to them.” But Augustine (De Cura pro Mort. xiii) expressly says: “The dead, even the saints do not know what is done by the living or by their own children,” as a gloss quotes on the text, “Abraham hath not known us” (Isaiah 63:16). He confirms this opinion by saying that he was not visited, nor consoled in sorrow by his mother, as when she was alive; and he could not think it possible that she was less kind when in a happier state; and again by the fact that the Lord promised to king Josias that he should die, lest he should see his people’s afflictions (4 Kings [= 2 Kings in the NABRE that you are using] 22:20). Yet Augustine says this in doubt; and premises, “Let every one take, as he pleases, what I say.” Gregory, on the other hand, is positive, since he says, “We cannot believe.” His opinion, indeed, seems to be the more probable one — that the souls of the blessed who see God do know all that passes here. For they are equal to the angels, of whom Augustine says that they know what happens among those living on earth. But as the souls of the blessed are most perfectly united to Divine justice, they do not suffer from sorrow, nor do they interfere in mundane affairs, except in accordance with Divine justice.

    From the Summa Theologica Supplement.72.1:

    The Divine essence is a sufficient medium for knowing all things, and this is evident from the fact that God, by seeing His essence, sees all things. But it does not follow that whoever sees God’s essence knows all things, but only those who comprehend the essence of God: even as the knowledge of a principle does not involve the knowledge of all that follows from that principle unless the whole virtue of the principle be comprehended. Wherefore, since the souls of the saints do not comprehend the Divine essence [which is infinite and therefore incomprehensible], it does not follow that they know all that can be known by the Divine essence — for which reason the lower angels are taught concerning certain matters by the higher angels, though they all see the essence of God; but each of the blessed must needs see in the Divine essence as many other things as the perfection of his happiness requires. For the perfection of a man’s happiness requires him to have whatever he will, and to will nothing amiss: and each one wills with a right will, to know what concerns himself. Hence since no rectitude is lacking to the saints, they wish to know what concerns themselves, and consequently it follows that they know it in the Word. Now it pertains to their glory that they assist the needy for their salvation: for thus they become God’s co-operators, “than which nothing is more Godlike,” as Dionysius declares (Coel. Hier. iii). Wherefore it is evident that the saints are cognizant of such things as are required for this purpose; and so it is manifest that they know in the Word the vows, devotions, and prayers of those who have recourse to their assistance.

    Now you go on to say, “I want to be able to explain the Catholic Teaching on these things to Protestants, giving the how.” This is a noble ambition. Nevertheless, I must mention that knowledge and teaching are not easy to acquire. I have spent close to 60 years reaching my present level of knowledge of the Catholic faith, and there are still many things I do not know.

    Furthermore, what is most important about our religion is not to know it, but to live it. For it is in prayer and right living, according to the will of God, that we will be judged worthy of heaven.

    Another point that you may not have considered is that only a few Protestants ever arrive at a point where they are willing to listen to a Catholic explain his faith and accept what he is saying. The great majority, even if they have received the grace of God, will continue where they are, ignoring the Catholic faith, which they believe is misguided or even evil.

    The Coming Home Network does not knock on doors. Instead, we await those who are interested to approach us. The harvest is significant, but it remains a very small portion of the millions of Protestants in the world.

    As to your main question, concerning the “personal omnipresence of the Son,” I answered that above. To reiterate: As God, the Son possesses all the divine attributes, including omnipresence. However, ad extra, the Persons of the blessed Trinity always act together and in concert.

    May the Lord keep you on the narrow path that leads to salvation, for you are “not my own,” but belong to Him.

    David

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    notmyown
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    Thank you very much!!!  My heart is warmed, and my soul and mind are edified.  You have helped me very much, father in Christ.  Your decades of knowledge and experience and readings and studies from the writings of the great theologian-Saints have truly edified me, and helped me.  My soul is grateful to you, brother, and is grateful to God for you.  Thank you.  I love being part of the larger Family of Faith, with persons who are so much farther along that I to speak knowledge, and wisdom, and who can provide some direction and human aid when I need it.  Thank you for doing just that.  I love you brother, with the love of the Family of God, with great deference to you in Christ.  Again, thank you.  If you think of anything else to add, which you think could help me in these things, or in any related or seemingly unrelated matter, please do not hesitate to continue, or to speak truth and wisdom to me in any way through this.

    Having grown up in this technological world, I find little difference between this and other valid means of communication, and believe that it is acceptable for providing knowledge, and wisdom, and is as useful for edification as the pen.  Please, if you have anything else to add that you would like to, please do not restrain yourself.  I am receptive, and my ears, and my imagination, and my mind are open to what you have to share.  Again, I am greatly appreciative of all of this, all that you have said, and all that you have yet to say if there is more that you would like to, and for your putting up with me in my ignorance and inexperience. 🙂

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